Oct '12
Letter from a Reader on Stocking Up on Milk at Dave’s
Some members in our community are creating a terrible chilul Hashem for the management and staff at Dave’s. Each week on Tuesday they bring in 448 gallons of cholov yisroel milk, and many weeks (especially after people come back from out of town after yom tov and in the summer, and the last week of the month) it is gone within a day!! When the managers and staff are questioned on Wednesday & Thursday by all the rest of the people that come to buy milk and find the shelves empty, they are told, “In your community the people are not considerate of others.
They load their carts with 8 or 10 gallons of milk, whatever their WIC coupons will allow them to get, they must be stocking their freezers with it, and in meantime they are leaving no milk for the rest of the community for that week.”
Unfortunately and sadly so, their accusation is 100% correct. They are hogging all the milk in their freezers while many many others cannot redeem their WIC coupons and leave the store empty-handed (realize that some people are coming from as far as Wickliffe). Considering the chillul Hashem that they are causing and the fact that there is no real kapara for a chilul Hashem, if they really want to get ALL their WIC milk in one week and hide it in their freezers they should forgo on the chumra of Rav Moshe for a “baal nefesh” and get 10 gallons of cholov stam milk instead. Consideration for others and being careful to avoid any possible chillul Hashem take precedence over a chumra. And besides, a true “baal nefesh” does not act in such a manner.
18 October 2012, 11:57 am
I have a general comment that is not to be taken personally by the person who wrote this letter. This has come up before and I really wish that those who submit letters to the editor would please sign their name. The fact that someone takes credit for their own letter adds much more credibility to its content. In regard to this letter, however unfortunate the situation, there is little to dispute and the author should have nothing to fear by taking credit. Quite the contrary. The author should be commended for bring this to our attention. Like I said though, this matter has come up before and should perhaps be posed directly to the editor.
18 October 2012, 12:02 pm
Sorry to say, its not the purchasers causing the Chillul Hashem. It is the late comers who tell them that people in our community are hogging the milk.
I do not believe too many people are feeding their freezers with milk. I am a WIC user, and I will explain to you how it works.
Some months, when I am afraid of running low on milk, I skimp on the milk all month. At the end of the month, if I see I have extra, I buy more milk the last week and let my kids drink it more liberally than usual. There is nothing wrong with that.
Some months, when I am low on milk, I get calls from friends who have extra milk. They ask me if I need milk, and I gladly accept. This happens BECAUSE in our community, people ARE considerate of others, B”H!
This is one of the drawbacks living in an out of town community. The store have a very hard time figuring out how much milk to order. No store wants to spill out gallons of milk when it expires. It’s too much of a loss. The risk of ordering too much is too expensive. The stores have to guess, and sometimes we lose.
After Yom Tov, when I come back from out of town, I need to purchase more milk than usual because my supply is empty, Not to use up my WIC coupons. In fact, after this past Yom Tov, I bought a different brand of Cholov Yisroel milk and it spoiled on me much earlier than the expiration date.
According to those who spoke to R’ Moshe zt”L, the term Baal Nefesh was not used in the way you make it sound. I have heard from Rabbi Belsky shlita that Reb Moshe zt”l told even regular people to consume only Cholov Yisroel. He did not hold it to be a mere “chumra.”
However, if you view yourself as a Baal Nefesh, maybe you should judge our community favorably. If you would look at the community in a better light, then you would be able to explain to the management at Daves what is really going on. There might be some frustration, but at least there would not be any Chillul Hashem!!
18 October 2012, 12:39 pm
If there is such a demand for the milk that it is all purchased in the 1st day or so after delivery, perhaps the store should inventory more of the milk. It would be a win/win for everyone. Most stores would be thrilled to have product sell out that quickly.
18 October 2012, 1:12 pm
It is not a chilul Hashm if the store does not buy enough to meet the demand (artificial or real). Regardless of weather the damand is for immediate drinking, or for the freezer, for days whan Dave’s sells out.
18 October 2012, 1:58 pm
I try to shop on Tuesday or Wednesday because I know all the milk will be gone by Thursday.
18 October 2012, 2:59 pm
I don’t really understand this issue. Can’t people go to Heinen’s or Unger’s?????
18 October 2012, 5:48 pm
Unger’s does not take WIC. Heinen’s may not carry the WIC gallon sizes of chalav yisrael.
18 October 2012, 6:28 pm
Ungers doesnt have pride of the farm. but Shimons also carries pride of the farm and I think he takes WIC
18 October 2012, 7:02 pm
I dont understand why we are accusing others of making a Chillul Hashem. Does everyone in the community do their WIC shopping the same week? If so Daves should be able to track that and stock accordingly. If not,stocking up on milk should not be such aproblem. The problem might have more to do with the change of population over Yom Tov and the fact that we cant get milk on Tues when Tues is Yom Tov.
18 October 2012, 7:02 pm
I think this is just an excuse for anti semitis\\m. Would they care if we bought out the cherrios or corn flakes w\every week?
what a sham
18 October 2012, 8:09 pm
I didn’t even know you could get Chalav Yisroel milk in gallon size!! I’m really out of the loop
18 October 2012, 8:30 pm
Why can’t the community talk this out with Dave’s and see what kind of solution can be worked out??
18 October 2012, 10:33 pm
I totally disagree with this letter. News flash: many people buying CY milk from Dave’s are not on WIC (like me). I go in there once a week or so to buy milk and a few other items. Sometimes they have milk, sometimes they don’t. I see plenty of frum people buying milk there, and I’ve never seen people loading up on milk like you describe. But assuming that some people do that, what’s wrong with it? If they don’t normally shop at Dave’s, doesn’t it make sense that they would come in once to get their milk and not want to make repeated trips throughout the month? This is a problem with Dave’s, not the people buying the milk.
18 October 2012, 10:58 pm
SHEESH isnt this was free market is all about?
DOES IT SAY LIMIT? WHO CARES????????????????
18 October 2012, 11:53 pm
WOW!!!I Free market is exactly what it is..If Daves would get 600 gallons of milk a month that would solve the problem..Everyone has to do what works for them and if buying 10 gallons of milk at a time works for them and they choose to stock their freezers then so be it..I think there are so many more important issues facing our community i dont think its worth it to get fired up over milk…just my opinion..
19 October 2012, 7:12 am
I think our community is growing, kah, bh and the stores can use all their wizadry to keep track of our purchases and stock accordingly. Its called supply and demand.
While Daves is doing a favor stocking the milk and they may not have the greatest profit margin, they are doing it to gain our business. Someone should speak to a manager higher up than the dairy dept.
19 October 2012, 7:50 am
A Chillul Hashem doesn’t necessarily deal with the specific issues, but rather the PERCEPTION non-Jews have. When the workers in the store see people loading up on 10 Gallons of CY Milk (which is a persihable item and which the store won’t be willing to over-order on and lose their money), the perception is that the Orthodox Jewish community isn’t thinking about each other. No matter what happens outside the store – and the support within our community is exemplary – it’s our responsibility and obligation to do what we can to change this perception.
19 October 2012, 9:24 am
I’m really confused by the management’s response. So when Thanksgiving rolls around, and customers are stocking up on turkeys and other traditional ingredients, do they expect everyone to first ask the staff if there are enough turkeys for the community, or should they hold off on their purchases??? Or if an item is on sale, should people only buy one at a time and come back every day for more, just to make sure there’s enough for everyone? It’s not a famine – there’s a reasonable expectation on the CY shopper’s part that they can purchase as much as they need for their family, and if they want to purchase all at once, that’s their right. I mean, we shop at Costco not just for the savings but to make sure we have adequate supplies of food for our large family without having to run to the store each morning!
Furthermore, Dave’s should be happy to have a steady supply of customers for the pricier milk, and it’s extremely unprofessional of them to complain about customers to other shoppers. Perhaps they might not keep up with the seasons, holidays, etc. enough to realize when there will be a surge, but at the same time, they should really notice if they continuously sell out withint a day or so.
19 October 2012, 11:07 am
I agree with “is this really a problem???”.
You know, I was by Fairmount Cleaners during the pre-Yom Tov season. They told me that they have it marked on their calendars when the busy weeks are. They hire more staff for our busy seasons.
They also told me that sometimes they are off mark, and the workers are hired on a few days even though the business picked up only on a later date.
But they were not complaining. They told me that they are very grateful to our community. They than G-d for sending us to them.
If Daves wants our community to come to their store, and they cannot figure out our schedules by themselves, maybe they should hire someone from our community. That person could advise them which products we want and how much and when to order these items.
19 October 2012, 11:14 am
what is a baal nefesh?
19 October 2012, 11:17 am
A person who is especially careful about halacha and other forms of conduct.
19 October 2012, 2:24 pm
First, it is extremely unprofessional for a Dave’s employee to say such a thing.
Second, I have a small family and one member is allergic to milk. Add to that, we are not big milk drinkers but we still go through two gallons of milk a week. It is totally possible that eight to 10 gallons would be the needs of a bli ayin hara larger family for a week or two weeks.
22 October 2012, 8:48 am
I agree with the fact that they are a number of large families that can use 8-10 gallons a week . In my family we use at least 2 gallons if not a little bit more. A few solutions could be them stocking more of it or having other stores here stock it. I think its nice that you can even buy CY milk by the gallon there. I think instetad of having a big statement as WIC users take up all the milk isn’t the whole issue . B’H our community is growing in general as well as families are growing too. That is a wonderful thing and we have to in a positive way find a soultion for everyone.